Category: Jesus is Lord


Integration

Filed Under: Biblical Meditation, Christendom, Church Life, Jesus is Lord, New Covenant, Our Covenant With God, Spiritual Life by rossrohde — 6 Comments
February 14, 2013

How different is this, practically different...

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.  Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.  For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope (Gal. 5:1-5).

What is Paul saying here? Is this merely about circumcision or is there a deeper principle in what Paul is saying? I believe there is a deeper principle, which is this. Pick your covenant. Live by the old covenant of the law, which is slavery, or live fully in the new covenant of the Spirit, which is freedom. You can’t have it both ways. To choose to take one part of the old covenant is to reject Christ and at that point you are required to obey the whole old covenant of the law.

Now that we Christians have twenty centuries under our belts I believe we need to ask that question again. Which covenant are we going to live in? Specifically, are we going to have an integrated faith which revolves around Jesus as Lord and living in a new covenant arrangement with Him or are we going to live like we are in the old covenant? If we are going to live in the new covenant then everything we do, say, believe and practice should be an integral whole. Let me state this as a question. Is your theology (what we believe about God), ecclesiology (the way we live the gathering of believers), missiology (the way we do Kingdom ministry), and praxis (the way we live life) seamlessly focused on the centrality of Jesus the Lord and His new covenant relationship with us, or does it go back to old covenant practice? If it does, it will not only reflect the theology of the Bible, it will reflect the practice of Jesus, his disciples and the early Church as reflected in Acts and the Epistles.

Before you answer that question let me contrast these issues in the old covenant and the new covenant.

...from this...

Theology: in the old covenant believers stuck to the letter of the law as it was written. In their own power they tried to follow the rules. In the new covenant our behavior is based on the law that is written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (see. Heb. 8:7-13, specifically vs. 10). This will reflect God’s written word, but it is initiated by the Spirit, not human will.

Ecclesiology: in the old covenant the gathering of God’s people was focused on the temple (a building). All worship and ministry was directed by men (the Aaronic priesthood). In the new covenant no ministry in specific buildings is mentioned or prescribed because the temple of the Holy Spirit is the human body and heart. Therefore when God’s people gather (anywhere) they can allow Jesus the Lord himself to lead them. While there is human participation, leadership belongs to Jesus the Lord. There is no special building and no clergy class.

Missiology: In the old covenant all ministry was done by men and led by men. The beauty of Israel was intended to draw the nations to God who resided in the temple. It was a “bring them in” mentality. In the new covenant Jesus said go. All of us have the Holy Spirit leading us from inside of our hearts and minds (Heb. 8:10 again). So Jesus the Lord leads us individually and corporately outward. Men do not coordinate this but they do cooperate through obedience.

Praxis: In the old covenant the leading of the Holy Spirit was rare (occasionally through some prophets and kings) and inconsistent. The Spirit came and left. Consequently it was up to men to follow the letter of the law in their own power, by their own will. In the new covenant the Spirit resides in our hearts and minds. Our bodies therefore become the new temple and the Christian leads a holy life by His power and direction. And this will reflect the behavior of godly people in the New Testament.

Both old covenant and new covenant life were integrated and consistent. In the old covenant godly people tried their best to follow the letter of the law in what they believed about God (theology), how they gathered in the temple (ecclesiology), how they did ministry (missiology), and how they lived. This was human led and human powered, but done to please God.

In the new covenant the Holy Spirit resides in us and leads from within. Jesus leads humans to cooperate and obey Him. If this leading is truly from Him it will never negate His written word. So our theology is first and foremost led by the Spirit but discerned by the written word (they won’t conflict). New covenant ecclesiology needs no building, it just needs Spirit filled believers to gather. It also needs no special leader because when they gather Jesus the Lord leads. Ministry is led by the Spirit of Jesus and reflects the missionary behavior we see in the Bible which was also led by the Spirit of Jesus. Our behavior (praxis) is led by the Spirit from within, not laws, rules or even Scriptural principles, as good as they are (read Rom. 7). In fact the written word of God itself says, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life (2 Cor. 3:6).

...or this?

So old covenant life was integrated in every way. It was human led but trying desperately to please God. It needed a written code to follow by human effort. It needed a special building where men could worship God in their own effort. It needed special human leaders who would spiritually lead others (priests) by their own effort. Ministry was based on humans, in their own effort, behaving according to the written code which would draw people in. Behavior that pleased God was strictly an act of the human will. In the same way, new covenant behavior is all about following the Spirit of Jesus the Lord who lives in our bodies and speaks to our hearts and minds. So theology, ecclesiology, missiology and praxis are all led by the Spirit of Jesus from within. That’s why “Jesus is Lord” is not just a doctrine of theology, it is a way of life. Jesus leads everything. For that reason we don’t need a special building, special rules, special leadership, great human developed strategies and a life of trying hard to follow the principles of the Bible. All of this is lead by Jesus from within. We just cooperate and obey.

Pick a question and respond:

  • Is your theology, ecclesiology, missiology and praxis old covenant, new covenant or a mixed bag?
  • Have you ever seen a Christian building (commonly but erroneously called a church) named something like “Temple” Baptist? Does that seem as incongruous to you as it does to me?
  • What’s the practical difference between an old covenant priest and a Christian priest, minister or pastor? How does that square with the new covenant?
  • What happens when our theology, ecclesiology, missiology, and praxis are a mixed bag of old covenant and new? Does it make sense to say we follow the Spirit (new covenant) and then talk about our goals and objectives we’ve developed? Does it make sense to say our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit yet meet in temple like buildings and have a Christian priesthood? Does it really make sense to say “I live by biblical principles,” and then say Jesus is Lord?
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How to Kill a Viral Jesus Movement

Filed Under: Christendom, Church History, Church Life, Jesus is Lord, Meeting Together, New Covenant, Spiritual Life, Supernaturalism, The Viral Jesus Book, Viral Christianity by rossrohde — 3 Comments
April 13, 2012

It's great while it lasts. We need to learn to not take control from Jesus so they do last.

When viral Jesus movements (also called revivals) happen they are exciting, powerful and fruitful. They can also be surprisingly fragile. God begins many of these but they are killed because of inappropriate human activity. I want to discuss this activity so that none of us are ever a part of killing a movement of God.

The Wrong Wineskins

In my book Viral Jesus I note that what I call partial Jesus movements normally last twenty years or less. By partial Jesus movements I am referring to a movement of the Spirit (revival) that gets snuffed too early. I would include in this list the 1st Great Awakening, the 2nd Great Awakening, The Moravian movement, the Welsh revivals, the Azusa Street Revival…I could go on. Here’s the sad point, we have not seen a single viral Jesus movement go for more than about twenty years between the Edict of Milan in 313 AD and the current viral Jesus movement in China in 1949. That’s 1,636 years. Let me be clear, a number of these movements sparked significant lasting change. Both the 2nd Great Awakening and the Azusa Street Revival gave birth to current denominations. But the lasting power and presence of the Holy Spirit was gone, as was the rapid in gathering of souls. The Assemblies of God denomination was born out of Azusa Street. Is the average Assemblies church having a rapid in gathering of souls? Is there a pervasive holiness among members that is any different than say a Baptist church? The revival had long lasting effects but the revival itself has gone.

In contrast, the first viral Jesus movement, the early Church lasted about 280 years. Honestly it was losing its power before the Edict of Milan but that was the largest and last nail in the coffin. The viral Jesus movement which is currently happening in China has been going on since 1949 (63 years and counting). What’s the difference? Put simply the difference is wineskins. The way of doing church which we now think of as standard practice, (congregational meetings in dedicated buildings with a hierarchical leadership structure) is a hostile environment to the Spirit’s powerful work. For specific details of this read the chapters The Crumbling of a Viral Jesus Movement and The History of Partial Viral Jesus Movements in Viral Jesus. How could the early church sustain a viral movement for nearly 300 years? They didn’t have our current church practice. When it finally became formalized the viral movement stopped. How can our Chinese brethren sustain their movement of the Sprit for over 60 years? They don’t follow standard church practice. You can read about that in Thank You Chairman Mao. Following are some of the more specific reasons that our more traditional practices kill viral Jesus movements.

Human Control

The Church was specifically designed to function with Jesus as Lord and his servants to listen to His specific instructions because of the new covenant. In the new covenant Jesus the Lord gives us specific directions to our hearts and minds (Heb. 8:10). Have you ever seen footage of a SWAT team entering a house to make an arrest? It is confusing and chaotic. One guy is yelling POLICE! Another is commanding, “PUT UP YOUR HANDS!” The next is screaming, “GET ON THE GROUND!” Another is saying, “DON’T MOVE YOUR HANDS!” All the while there are flash bang grenades going off. Chaos! That’s what we have now in the Church, thousands of human leaders “leading.” There is so much human noise it becomes difficult to hear the still small voice of the Lord speaking into our hearts and minds. This human domination can also manifest itself in a leader, group or denomination trying to control what happens.

Focus on Manifestations or Avoid Them

In my last post Characteristics of a Jesus Movement I mentioned two current tendencies, to bask in the glow of supernatural manifestations or shun them. Both can kill viral Jesus movements. To encounter God’s supernatural power is wonderful. But God gives this for specific reasons, to change our lives towards holiness, to show his power to the world and spread his Gospel. It is not a spiritual drug for us to merely enjoy. When we focus on the manifestation and not the Master we risk losing both. In the opposite direction we have brethren who are so steeped in secular rationalism that they are offended by supernatural manifestations. They seem weird, inappropriate and distasteful. In fact, to many they seem satanic. I give a sound test to see what is from God and what is from the devil in my post Is This God or the Devil? However, both of these fleshly tendencies create a hostile environment for a viral Jesus movement.

Fail to Become Missional

There have been a number of truncated viral movement in the US in the last thirty years. They started out fine, despite the bad wineskins, but they fizzled. What happened? Two things happened in my opinion. First, people were curious about the supernatural manifestations but weren’t serious about God’s plans. In other words, it quickly became human focused instead of God focused (see above). But the second problem was that there was little focus on allowing God’s work to become missional. In my post Characteristics of a Jesus Movement I noted, “true Jesus movements start out attractional and very quickly become missional.” That happened in the 1st and 2nd Great Awakenings, the Moravian movement, and the Azusa Street revival. Currently the tendency is to come and observe, come and experience, come and enjoy; but there isn’t a lot of going unto all the world to preach the Gospel. These truncated movements have died or will shortly if they don’t take God’s purposes in mind and follow Him out into the harvest.

  • Do you see any common factors in these fatal behaviors?
  • Why do you think the form of the wineskins makes so much difference?
  • Why do you think Jesus movement die if they don’t become missional?
  • Why does human control (not the same as human participation) truncate viral Jesus movements?
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Sin Management: Bad Idea!

Filed Under: Biblical Meditation, Church Life, Jesus is Lord, Meeting Together, Spiritual Life by rossrohde — 7 Comments
March 19, 2012

How do I get through this maze?

Judging by what many Christians say nowadays and particularly what they do, outside observers would think that Christianity is about sin management. By that I mean that the point of Christianity is about being good. It isn’t. That’s a byproduct; an important byproduct but a byproduct nonetheless.

Here’s why I believe sin management is a bad idea. When we start thinking in terms of behaving correctly we are, in essence, trying to live the Christian life in our own ability. So what are the inevitable results of such a paradigm and such behavior? By “taking control” of our sin life, we push the Holy Spirit (and His power) out of the way and start trying to be good in the weakness of our own human flesh. It is like trying to accomplish an atomic bomb’s job with a firecracker.

That ends up leading to a whole series of other inappropriate spiritual behavior patterns. We end up having secret sins and have no real way to combat them; so we hide our darker selves and show a false spiritual façade. Our image becomes more important to us than the honest reality of our spiritual lives. This, in turn, just drives the Spirit farther from us because we have lost contact with our own reality, let alone His. What I’m describing here is hypocrisy. Ask yourself, how did Jesus feel about religious hypocrites?

We also have a community were rules (and keeping them) are more important than true spirituality, connecting with the life of the Holy Spirit. Such communities often end up having more and more emphasis on rules; the more rules and the more specific and exacting the rules, the better. Why? Because the assumption is that keeping rules will keep us holy. When, in fact, trying to gain God’s approval through rule keeping drives His Spirit away. There will always be Christians and Christian communities who are more legalistic than we are. That’s not the point. The point is, are we trying to live our Christian life by rule, precepts, guidelines (call them what you will) or by the power of God’s Spirit working within us?

If you have a bunch of people acting like this (a spiritual community/church) what do we end up with? We end up with fear; fear we won’t “do it right,” fear we will be exposed, fear that others will know, fear of our real selves. We also end up with a community of spiritual performance and competition to see who can seem the most holy. It’s very ugly and very painful.

The end result is a community of judgment because phonies would rather try to control other’s sins than deal with themselves. Instead of a community of grace, where we are all broken sinners limping on a path closer and closer to Jesus; we end up with a dangerous community with a fake façade, pretending to be a community of grace. No one is going to be the first to let their guard down. I am describing the Pharisees and much of the Christian community today.

This is a community made up of self righteous individuals, which takes on the character of its individual parts. And it is a dangerous, hurtful, lonely place. Most people who experience it only stay (if they can really stand it) because they know nothing else or they assume that that is the only place they can find Jesus. However, Jesus’ Spirit may not be there in any great measure in the first place. He is replaced with talk about Jesus. It’s not the same thing.

So what do we want instead? We want a place where we can let our hair down. We want a place where we can be ourselves, in all our brokenness. We want a place where others actually care about us as people, not as a project. We long for a place where all we want to do is meet up with Jesus when we gather and be around people who lovingly help us notice where Jesus is in our lives and help us get closer to Him. And we get to do that with them as well.

Such a place could be described as an ambiance of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. In other words, the Spirit is there, so we are safe and loved. And, because the Spirit is there and also often in control of our lives, we finally have real power to live life as Jesus wants and as we honestly desire. That’s why Paul suggested; do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. It is not that getting drunk is alright, it is that the only way to combat sin is to be controlled by the Spirit of God. We can’t do it ourselves no matter how hard we try.

  • Have you ever honestly, truly been in a community like that?
  • Do you feel confident you know how to listen to the Spirit’s voice enough and know how to follow His lead to the point that rules are no longer necessary to live a good life?
  • If it is possible to live the life God wants for us without rules; what are all those rules doing in the New Testament, never mind the Old Testament?
  • Have you ever wondered how the first generation of Christians was so powerful without yet having the written New Testament? Does asking such a radical question mean I don’t think the Scriptures are important?
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Sand In the Gears

Filed Under: Apostolic Ministry, Christendom, Church History, Jesus is Lord, Spiritual Life, Supernaturalism, Viral Christianity, Worldview by rossrohde — 12 Comments
March 12, 2012

Does our ministry practice throw sand in the gears of the Kingdom?

I’m often asked by people in non-organic churches, particularly pastors, why I don’t care for such things as hierarchical leadership, buildings, denominations, ministry as business methodology and other such non-biblical encrustations. While I try to be gracious when I speak of such issues, particularly in Viral Jesus, there is nevertheless, I believe, a need to talk about such strategic issues.

The assumption is often that these issues are my personal pet peeves and that such issues are a matter of personal preference, somewhat like choosing what shirt one was wearing that particular day. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Another assumption is that I am such a stickler for biblical literalness that I can’t seem to distinguish between what is required biblically (such things as holiness and prayer) and what is optional, such as cultural expressions and technology. The main assumption is that issues like buildings, clergy and ministry as business are just cultural expressions based on our culture and time. The argument goes that having clergy or doing ministry as a business project is no less biblical that talking on a telephone or using a computer. For the record I use both telephones and computers. Again, this is a false assumption and in my opinion, a false analogy.

So why do I care so much about such issues? There are two interrelated issues that create concern on my part. The two issues are frictionlessness and the lordship of Jesus. I will address each separately, but they are deeply related and I am aware of the relationship.

I was watching a Ted Talk the other day and was struck by Jennifer Pahlka’s use of the word “frictionless.” I thought, that’s it, we need an ecclesiology that is frictionless; one that doesn’t get in the way of Jesus’ agenda, which is the spread of His Kingdom. The way the church functioned and the way they did ministry in the New Testament was frictionless; it did not interfere with Jesus’ agenda, it was built exactly for that purpose. The old saying form follows function holds true in ecclesiology as well as building automobiles.

When we do what seems to us as innocuous, like focusing ministry in a building, there are all sorts of unintended consequences. In effect we have taken a Kingdom expanding ministry and forced it to be stuck in place and time.  New Testament ministry was apostolically and prophetically centered (besides the main focus on Jesus the Lord). It was a ministry done “out there,” in society. It had no barriers of place or time. And it was always moving outward. If the best place to meet seekers is in a parking lot at 3 AM, then apostles do exactly that. They can plant a church right there among people who would never darken the door of a church. But the second we have “worship service” at 11:00 AM on Sunday, and do the majority of ministry in a designated building, biblically designed apostolic ministry grinds to a halt. It is like throwing sand in the gears of the Kingdom. Our ministry practice ceases to be frictionless. It starts to get in the way of Jesus’ well thought out and frictionless ministry practice. In other words, the rapid and effective flow of the Kingdom out into society is greatly compromised. Building are just one example of sand in the Kingdom’s gears, there are many others which I explore is Chapter 5: The Crumbling of a Viral Jesus Movement, in Viral Jesus.

The other issue I have with non-biblical ecclesiology is how such behavior compromises the lordship of Jesus Christ. Let’s take ministry as a business project as an example. Biblical ministry behavior was based on Jesus actually making the command decisions. One great place to see this in practice is Acts 16:6-10 another is Acts 13:1-3. Note in Acts 16, as Paul and friends move through Asia minor, how Jesus himself directs them in where to go and what to do. Note such powerful phrases as: kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia and but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to, and concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. This is ministry directed by Jesus himself and discerned through prophecy.

In place of such spiritually powerful and effective ministry, we decide that American business practice and its use of human planning, like time bound and quantifiable goals, will make us more effective. All it does is strip away control of the ministry from Jesus the Lord and place it firmly in our foolish human hands. Again I discuss this in Viral Jesus. We have replaced supernaturally powerful, Jesus directed ministry for humanly powerful, man directed ministry. Just remember whoever makes the decision is the lord. If we make decisions we are lords, if Jesus makes the decisions He is Lord.

So my concern for the foolish later historical encrustations in the Church (Christendom) are not merely issues of personal preference, they are strategic and they are spiritual. I believe it would do us well to discuss this openly and graciously so we all become more effective at following Jesus into the harvest. That was one of my goals for writing Viral Jesus.

  • What other ministry practices besides using buildings and ministry as a business do you think interferes with the frictionless spread of the Kingdom?
  • Why do you think the church began to adopt these non-biblical practices?
  • Do you believe, like I do, that God intentionally built such things as ecclesiology and ministry practice to be frictionless and led by Him, or are you not persuaded by my argument?
  • How can we have Jesus led ministry if we don’t practice prophecy? How can we determine which prophecies are from the Lord and which are fleshly if we don’t study and practice discernment of spirits?
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The Gospel and the Old Testament

Filed Under: Biblical Meditation, Evangelism, Jesus is Lord, New Covenant, Our Covenant With God, Recommended Books, The Viral Jesus Book by rossrohde — 5 Comments
March 5, 2012

Is this really the only way to preach the Gospel?

The following is an abbreviated version of a blog interaction I had concerning the role the Old Testament takes in the Christian Gospel. You can see the entire exchange in the comments of Scot McKnight Interview: “The King Jesus Gospel” & McKnight Responds to Critics .

Hey, Ross

I wanted you to know that I’ve been enjoying your book greatly. Also, some of the things you’ve said there have encouraged me to go back and actually begin reading McKnight’s “King Jesus Gospel.” (One of McKnight’s theses is that one can’t truly understand the Gospel without understanding its roots in the Old Testament.)

I’ve been pondering for a long time now just what the gospel IS, and not knowing exactly what I’d say if I were called on to actually give a sermon on it. I mean, we’re promised that we’ll be given the things to say, but all the same it might be good to have SOME idea what’s going to come out of our mouths. I gave up the Four Spiritual Laws gospel long ago as woefully inadequate. While I do know the OT, I can hardly share the whole thing with an interested friend in one go.

I think part of this is to get the knowledge internalized via the Spirit to the point where it is no longer necessary to intellectually construct an argument or thesis; it just grows out of you as a flower does out of a plant. That’s my goal, anyway. But I did want you to know that thus far, I love your book.

Blessings, Cindy

Hi Cindy,

As you read Viral Jesus you will note that I place a high value on two issues, the lordship of Jesus (which needs to be played out in all that we “do” not just “say,” and the new covenant. This new covenant is a living contract/arrangement/lifestyle that we enter into with Jesus. At that point he becomes our God and we become his people.

When I preach the gospel I find that I often (not always) mention the new covenant because at least one way to understand the gospel is that they are entering into this agreement/contract. That brings in the Old Testament. Israel also had a covenant with God call the law or old covenant. At least one thing McKnight is saying is that we can’t understand the new covenant unless we understand the old one.

How are the Gospel's roots sunk deep into the Old Testament?

Now here’s a mind blowing thought. The words for “testament” as in Old Testament and New Testament can be equally or even better be translated “covenant.” The Old Testament revolves around the old covenant, before Israel had it, what it was, and what happened when they obeyed and when they did not. The New Testament is exactly the same thing for the new covenant. Remember Jesus said “In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.” (Lk 22:20). Semitic/Hebrew covenants were sealed with blood. That’s what the animal sacrifice was about in the OT. Jesus sealed his part of the covenant with his own blood. He became the “lamb of God” the sacrificial lamb of the new covenant just like the lambs and goats were of the old covenant. Our sealing of the covenant comes with baptism which symbolizes death, burial and resurrection (i.e. we are sealing the covenant just like Jesus did); he did it literally, we do it symbolically. Now does the OT part of salvation make more sense?

Finally, the Holy Spirit really does give us words at the right time. Part of our new covenant agreement is that He will put the law in our hearts and minds (Jer. 31:31 and Heb. 8:10.) That means he can speak to our hearts and minds, it’s part of our covenant arrangement. And, because of this arrangement the Holy Spirit can put words in our heart and mind and just the right time. We have to be attuned to Him and listening but I’ve learned that when I am in a witnessing situation and paying attention just the right analogy or way of being comes up. I’ll mention this more than once in Viral Jesus. Note for example how my friend Vincent listened to Jesus in the Introduction. Note how Jesus told me to work with Amado later in the book.

Cindy, you are person with a sensitive spirit. That’s a huge advantage. It means that your heart is an excellent receptor to the voice of God. Trust it, or better said, trust Him. The only homework you really need is to learn to discern His voice from others. For the basics on that I’d like to point you to the post Four Voices.

Your Friend,

Ross

  • Do you think we need to understand the Gospel’s Old Testament roots to truly understand it?
  • Do you believe that there are many ways to preach the Gospel?
  • When we reduce the Gospel to a few propositional facts (such as the Bridge Illustration or the Four Spiritual Laws can it have a negative effect? What would that be?
  • Is it possible that every way of preaching the Gospel has its drawbacks? If so, how do we decide how to preach the Gospel in any given situation?
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Scot McKnight Interview: “The King Jesus Gospel” & McKnight Responds to Critics

Filed Under: Discipleship, Evangelism, Jesus is Lord, Our Covenant With God, Recommended Books, Spiritual Life, The Viral Jesus Book, Viral Christianity by rossrohde — 6 Comments
February 29, 2012

Following is a link for a full interview between Frank Viola and Scot McKnight as they discuss McKnight’s Book The King Jesus Gospel. This interview was originally on Frank Viola’s Blog Beyond Evangelical. Click this link to read the unedited interview: http://frankviola.org/2012/02/08/scotmcknight.

I highly recommend reading this interview as McKnight is touching on some of the same issues I discuss in Viral Jesus about the lordship of Jesus Christ.

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Listening 202

Filed Under: Biblical Meditation, Jesus is Lord, Recommended Books, Spiritual Life, Supernaturalism, The Viral Jesus Book by rossrohde — 8 Comments
February 4, 2012

Listening is an active process.

I’ve been having an ongoing conversation with Richard about listening to God. Here is my second installment I’m calling Listening 202. I’ve abbreviated both Richard’s comments and questions and my answer. For the whole conversation see Listening 101. Also note question #1 below where I am asking for your stories. I will send the author of any story I publish in this blog with a copy of my book Viral Jesus. I grant to myself the final decision on which stories I post. Ah, the joys of having your own blog.

Richard wrote:

…I suppose the big debate is the general (“don’t kill…”) to the specific (“go and speak to that stranger over there about Me”…). Different Christians debate how specific God is likely to get. Does he just tell us to “make disciples of all people” and expect us to figure out that we are able to enter a discipling relationship with, say, our mate Bob; or will he specifically and prophetically say “make a disciple of that guy over there”? How often does he tell us to go down Straight Street? (Acts 9:11)…

Richard

Hi Richard,

God can and does speak very directly to us. He will give us as much information as we need to obey Him. But, in my experience, listening is progressive. The more I am willing to listen and obey, and the more I actively listen, the more communication I get. I don’t think hearing the voice of God is any different today than it was at the time of the New Testament (I’m not a big fan of the doctrine of cessation, that the supernatural ceased; although I used to be steeped in it).

In my book Viral Jesus I give an example of God speaking to me very specifically when I was reaching a guy I called Amado. While I was beginning to share the gospel with Amado, God told me, “Don’t disparage other religions or you are going to lose this guy. Lead him like you are catching a horse.” You can read the rest of the story on pages 51-54. But, suffice it to say God spoke very specifically to me using a metaphor I could understand, (I grew up on a cattle ranch in Oregon). Was this audible? Not exactly, but it was very specific and I knew exactly what God was saying. And His communication ended up being spot on and very helpful in my ongoing relationship with Amado.

I think one of the key passages on listening is Acts 16:6-10 where Paul and friends are directed, step by step to Macedonia.

Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. So they passed by Mysia and went down to Troas. During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. (Acts 16:6-10)

When we speak of “listening” we are actually using a language metaphor for all types of communication. Very little of “God’s voice” and our “listening” is actually audible, but it is communication. I’ve highlighted in bold the words Luke uses to indicate God’s communication with Paul and friends. Note how specific it was. God moved them from traveling north by foot to traveling west by boat. Also note it was a bit of information at a time. He told them just enough to see if they would respond in obedience. They did, and then God gave them a little more. At the end of the process, there was great fruit…and hardship.

Listening is an ongoing process. One of the quickest ways to stop communication with God is to take over the process, in essence say, “I know what you want, and I’ve got it from here.” Another problem is when we decide how we want God to communicate with us, we want a vision, we don’t want Him to only speak to us through desires or inclinations; we want it to be very direct and unmistakable, etc. We need to understand that God’s communication with us is extremely multifaceted and often subtle. He speaks to our heart and mind (Heb 8:10). He can do that in so many ways, from ideas that pop into our head, to dreams, to feelings, to godly advice…the list goes on. The main issues are that we are intentionally looking for this communication, i.e. “listening,” and when He “speaks,” i.e. communicates in some way, we hear, make sure it is God’s voice (called discernment) and then obey. Remember this is a process, not an event; note again Paul and friends in Acts 16. The main issue is actively joining in the process with Jesus the Lord: ongoing seeking, listening, hearing, discerning and obeying.

  • Have you ever had an experience of hearing God that led to fruitful ministry? Send me your story. I’ll send a copy of my book Viral Jesus to every story I share on my blog.
  • God still speaks to us as specifically as he did to people we read about in the New Testament. Agree or Disagree? Why?
  • How would you answer Richard as to the specificity of God’s communication to us? Does He just give general principles, precepts and instructions, “make disciples of all people,” or does he tell us “make a disciple of that guy over there”?
  • What other questions do you have about God’s communication and our listening?
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Listening 101

Filed Under: Biblical Meditation, Jesus is Lord, New Covenant, Spiritual Life, Supernaturalism by rossrohde — 4 Comments
January 31, 2012

Listening isn't as hard as you may think.

In a recent blog Technique Disorder, I encouraged people to let Jesus guide them through the process of how to do ministry. In response, Richard M. made the following astute comment.

Ross,
Yes, I suffer from technique disorder too. But… I do have to say, most of your blog posts appear to me to boil down to “just listen to Jesus, dude!”. Now that is a fine reminder, and not a criticism.

But… listening to Jesus is still rather more easily said than done. I might have an idea – it seems Godly (so passes the ‘four voices test’) but is it just a good idea of mine or actually from Jesus? How much of what comes into my mind is just a reflection of what I’ve been reading of late? What about people who feel God tells them to do frankly crazy stuff? How do you teach people to hear God’s voice? Especially those from a non-Charismatic background? I know you’ve written a couple of blog post on that, but I would say that for every “just listen to Jesus” blog post, some pointers as to HOW would be great! But perhaps that’s just technique disorder, second degree.

Here’s my answer which might be thought of as Listening 101; not the final or even advanced listening, but at least a place to get started.

Hi Richard,

I think you’ve made a good point. Yes, we do need to listen to Jesus. In fact, it is a prerequisite to fruitful ministry. And, as you point out, few of us nowadays have been trained to listen to God’s voice, so it can be a bit frustrating to have someone consistently say, “listen” when we find that prospect daunting.

This, comment of yours, for my wife and me, is another confirmation that we need to write the book that Jesus has put on our hearts. For about six months now we’ve been discussing writing a book together on exactly what you state, how to discern the voice of God. We want it to be practical and accessible; written in ways that particularly evangelicals can comprehend. Charismatics have some writing on this, Catholics surprisingly (at least for some) have the very best writing on this, but Evangelicals have almost nothing besides Blackaby’s Experiencing God series, which is good, but very basic. In my opinion, Charismatics tend to have their bent which only touches certain aspects of hearing God. The Catholics use vocabulary and concepts that are so outside both the Charismatic and Evangelical worlds,they become inaccessible, despite the excellent content if we can get past all that…and our prejudice against Catholics.

In the mean time, let me give you a few pointers, which I hope will be helpful. God speaks the Richard language. That is to say that God knows how to talk to you personally. He doesn’t talk to everyone in some generic fashion. The hard part is listening; and for that you need to be willing and actively seek to hear. Go back to the post on the Four Voices and work through that lens which is a basic starter. If you discern that you aren’t hearing the other three voices, the world, the flesh or the devil, then start believing that the Spirit may be talking to you. Then move to the next points.

First is this test, and it’s an important one. Does the desire of your heart match the Scripture. If it is in violation of the precepts of Scripture it isn’t the Spirit’s voice. Observe how James uses this test in Acts 15 at the council of Jerusalem. God can’t deny himself. If it is neutral or in agreement, more tests of discernment need to be made, but at least it hasn’t been clearly ruled out.

Next, let’s answer your question, “but is it just a good idea of mine or actually from Jesus?” Your question brings to light the next point in discerning God’s voice. Who is in focus when you think and pray about this issue? Do you end up being a hero or the center of attention in your prayer or imaginative life? Or is the longing in your heart only because you want to see Jesus glorified or help/love others? These issues can be mixed together but, when push comes to shove, if it really is about you, it probably isn’t from Jesus.

Here’s another important test, the Gal. 5:22-23 test. The voice of the Spirit reflects the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. If you think about the issue you suspect might be God’s voice, but are consistently angry and disturbed, chances are that’s not the voice of the Spirit. For example, someone hates Obama. Then they begin to hear a voice that says they should shoot or even just continue to hate Obama. That isn’t from the Spirit. It doesn’t reflect the fruit of the Spirit. I’m not saying everyone should vote for Obama. I’m not going to weigh in on that one way or the other. But hatred isn’t from the Spirit. However, hatred and lying are two languages the evil one speaks well.

This isn’t all there is to say on this issue but at least it is a very basic primer. Ask God to speak to you. Ask him to teach you how to hear his voice more accurately. Trust him, he wants to speak to you. But expect his beginning to speak to you to be a growing process, not an event. Ask him to lead you to resources. But most of all, be willing to listen and actively seek his voice. It is better to make a mistake trying sincerely to follow Jesus, than to not listen due to fear of mistakes. God is a gracious and loving God and doesn’t get upset with our mistakes. Even a human father would rather his son or daughter made a mistake trying to do what he wants rather than a son or daughter who consistently won’t even bother to listen to what he says.

I hope this is helpful or at least a starter.

Warmly in Jesus,

Ross

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Identity

Filed Under: Biblical Meditation, Christendom, Church Life, Jesus is Lord, Spiritual Life by rossrohde — 3 Comments
January 26, 2012

Does the collar and the pipe make him more credible?

I personally know a lot of clergy and ex-clergy. If you include missionaries in that category, which I do, I know a whole boatload more. I lived and breathed in that world for over 25 years. One of the tendencies I’ve noted among those of us who are, or were, in the clergy is the propensity for getting our personal identity from our title or position. This often ends up causing spiritual and emotional problems for us.

There is a particularly dangerous perk when one is a member of the titled clergy. It is the perk of unearned reverence or respect.  Usually one is introduced as, “This is Pastor So and So.” Or, “this is What’s Her Name, she’s a missionary.” Of course the not so subtle subtext on this introduction is, “so treat with reverence and respect their opinion on all things religious.” In some circles the clergy even have special uniforms so that people will know who they are, otherwise their opinions might be treated as average and mundane.

In my particular case, when I was ordained[1], I had a special friend who addressed all my letters to Rev. Ross Rohde. This was 30 years ago when letters actually existed. I was actually introduced to people as Rev…you get the picture. Have you ever stopped to think how ridiculous the title Reverend is? Literally it means this is a person to be revered.

Revere: to show devoted deferential honor to: regard as worthy of great honor.[2]

Should we have a special class of people who are treated deferentially? I’ll let Paul answer that question. On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. (I Cor. 12: 22-25)

It should come as no surprise that being treated reverentially can go to our heads. For a few it is an intense adrenaline rush. For most, it is an unnoticed, unconscious, tacit problem that still deeply and negatively touches our ego. Those of us placed in this revered category, whether we like it or not, end up subconsciously playing the role. We are quick in any religious discussion to share our opinions. We are all too prone to dominate the agenda. We feel that others should respect our experience and position. Let’s face it, its fun to be a big shot, or at least the biggest guppy in the mud puddle. If we become aware of our ego issue, we try to hold our tongue, to sit on our hands…but it’s tough, real tough.

But here’s the even more devastating problem I’ve noticed. What happens when one is no longer a member of the clergy? What happens when your identity has been stripped away? What happens when the people who were calling you Reverend, fire you? What happens when the Reverend has to become an insurance agent to survive? That can be an incredible blow to one’s identity. The clergy are just as much victims of the clergy/laity system as are the laity. Both end up getting wounded by it.

Here’s the truth, whether we like it or not, a godly plumber is no less holy than a godly bishop. Popes or pastors have no more or less access to God than we do. God’s calling to be a waiter at the coffee shop is every bit as sacred as being called to the dangerous streets of Mogadishu. It might even be more strategic for the Kingdom. My cousin is called to be a cheese maker. I don’t doubt that calling in his life, nor does it make me, a twenty-five year veteran of overseas missions, any holier than he is. We both love Jesus and are obeying our calling from our Lord. Isn’t that enough?

The issue isn’t one class of people being more holy than another. It isn’t a matter of one calling being more special than another. The issue is obedience to the calling Jesus has called us to? Are we continuing to become the people he wants us to be? Let’s not get our identity from making cheese or being a denominational executive. Let’s just be identified by who lives in our hearts and minds.

  • Are all callings life time callings? Can God call someone to be in full time ministry; then have what some would consider a menial job? Are they less of the person they always were?
  • Where do you think this division of status came from? I can assure you it doesn’t come from the New Testament.
  • Is there still room for special respect for those who have demonstrated godly maturity and wisdom? Is an auto mechanic or a full time mother any more or less likely to be spiritually mature and wise than a full time minister? Can’t being a full time mechanic or mother be full time ministry?
  • Have you ever known non-clergy who were deeply spiritual and wise? Have you ever known people in professional ministry who shamed the name of Jesus with their behavior?

[1] I don’t believe in ordination any more since it has no support biblically. But, like everyone else, I was fitting into the system I knew.

[2] Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/revere .

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Technique Disorder

Filed Under: Apostolic Ministry, Discipleship, Jesus is Lord, Organic Church, Simple Church, Spiritual Life, The Viral Jesus Book, Viral Christianity by rossrohde — 2 Comments
January 24, 2012

Sadly doctors and nurses can't help you with technique disorder.

I read a great blog post today that made me recognize, once again, that I have a serious ministry disease. As I thought about Felicity Dale’s blog, A simple/organic contribution to global mission, it brought to remembrance an issue I faced as a missionary moving from a more traditional ministry setting into organic/simple church ministry; technique disorder. I personally had a serious case of technique disorder. I ministered in a context that was such a disease “hot zone” that everyone I knew suffered from technique disorder. I suspect this is a Western Church malady but we US Americans have a particularly virulent form of the disease. Further, I know from experience that once we have the disease we Westerners inflict this disease on previously healthy non-Westerners.

Let me list some of the more common symptoms of technique disorder.

  • Perceptual spiritual blindness: The afflicted delusionally believe the right technique can fix any ministry problem. The patient fails to turn to Christ for answers.
  • Workshop syndrome: The afflicted search desperately for a workshop to train them in the magic pill techniques to do ministry the “right way.”
  •  Detail myopia: The afflicted focus in on finer and finer details of the technique when the technique doesn’t work for them.
  • Initiation avoidance: The victim fears starting ministry for fear they won’t do it correctly or may not have enough training.
  • Training hysteria: The patient expresses strong emotions about the need for more training or excessive loyalty to a particular technique.
  • Expert Confusion: The afflicted feel that some designated expert has the answers they are searching for.
  • Failure frustration: If and when a particular technique fails to bring the desired results, the afflicted become agitated and confused.
  • Ministry fatigue: Failure frustration can lead to prolonged lack of desire to continue in ministry since “it just isn’t working.”
  • Hostility response: Failure frustration and ministry fatigue can eventually lead to a rejection of all ministry associated with the technique. A typical expression of hostility response is “I’ve tried simple church and it doesn’t work.”

It may seem to the reader at this point that I am anti-technique, anti-workshop and anti-training; that’s not true. I train people. I both participate in and teach in workshops in organic church planting, for example Greenhouse, which I strongly recommend. I’m not anti-technique, I just feel we need to understand the limits of technique and where true power and effectiveness comes from. Techniques are helpful. They just can’t fix anything. They have no power in themselves. They can even be exactly what is needed for a given situation but still not work. Why? The answer is simple. Spiritual power and fruitfulness come from an abiding relationship with Jesus. Further, we ourselves can’t make any ministry “work” or “be effective,” or “bear fruit.” That’s Jesus’ job. He is Lord. And, since he is Lord, we need to actually follow Him into ministry.

So, where does that lead us? I suggest getting good training and learn many helpful techniques. If you are just getting started, in my opinion, there is no better place than Greenhouse. But every useful technique, concept and insight you get at someplace like Greenhouse still has to be activated by an abiding relationship with Jesus, through following Him. He will guide you how to use the techniques you have learned. He will show you when to implement them. He might give you something totally new to fit your unique situation. In other words, the Spirit of Jesus will breathe life into the great training you have received.  Mere training itself can’t do that. For further development of this issue go to pages 134-135 of my book Viral Jesus.

  • Does technique disorder sound familiar to you?
  • Have you ever suffered from technique disorder? How you found remedies that could be helpful to fellow sufferers? What are they?
  • Do you think this is particularly a Western or American thing? Why or why not?
  • Do you think technique disorder is contagious? How is it passed from one person to the next?
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